topspin/slice service with forehand grip?

[african tiger]

Dear german tennis budies,
I tried the top spin slice service for a while without much succes. Desperate, I moved the grip to a rather fore hand one (V slightly to the right) and managed promptly to get some spin/ slice and the ball in. (They used to go to the net). Now, serving with forehand grip is highly forbiden is´n it? So what should I do now. Who can tell me more about that. My african instructor is not likely to say much about it. Advices in german are welcome.
Thanhks

[Benedikt]

kann einer das per PM für mich richtig übersetzen und die Antwort auch, wäre nett, kann zwar viel verstehen, aber eher schlecht schreiben. Ist heutzutage besser der Englischunterricht

[Bomberman]

i think there are players who change their grip for different kinds of services but you can reach the spin without changing grip as well. have you tried to vary your throw of the ball? usually this is the most important difference between slice, straight and kick service. do you know about that or shall we explain?
by the way, my brother does change his grip for service a little bit. but instead of having a middle or forehand grip, he tries it with a little backhand grip (not completely of course). i can't imagine how to get kick or even slice with a forehand grip, but i have not tried on court yet ;)

[howy]

I think that best thing to vary is the way you throw the ball. Acting this way you will put mor slice or spin on the ball. Use the grip which suits the best to you for your serve.
If you throw the ball slightly to the right (if you are right handed) then you should get more slice on the ball.
If you throw the slightly to the left the you should get more top spin on the ball.
Hope this helps.

[african tiger]

thanks bomberman,
exactly that is what confuses me. service has to be done with the middle grip (semicontinental)or slightly backhand (continental), due to my instructor. but holding the racket that way, i just hit the ball without spin. what i managed to get is a bit slice and the ball goes deep into the net. now, with the grip moved a bit to forehand (just a bit) so that the face of the racket opens just a few, the hitting, wich´s supposed to be from the center of the ball to 1.30, works pretty well and spin comes in and the ball goes in a higher loop over. how can one explain this?

thanks!


by the way, if i hold the racket in the middle and do the pronation, than the ball also goes over, with out the spin of couse.
that means in term of net clearance: middle grip + pronation= slightly forehand grip. is that correct?

[african tiger]

howy!

right! consider the toss to be fine. than the spin is that what i do not get. the slice is there. but i want them both. remember? the service is called top spin slice. and i only get it right with the grip moving slightly to the forehand one. should i be just happy with it and continue?

gruss :)

[eumel]

mal kurz auf deutsch, hab den letzten post net ganz verstanden, will er nen sliceaufschlag mit kick haben? xD

[Victorious]

@ African Tiger

Nice to have you here! :)
It's noch the grip at all. You should try not to move your feed while throwing the ball. Then you should try to turn you hip/your upper body to the right!
In the moment you are hitting the ball you let your body come back fast in the "normal" position.

It helped me, to get more spin.

[tennis-teufel]

OT
Ist heutzutage besser der Englischunterricht

Auf jeden Fall aber nicht die Rechtschreibung.:D

[african tiger]

dear all, dear victorious

u are right. the rapid movement of the body seems to be one of those secrets of getting the spin. what grip do u have by the way? (my concern is stil whether the toss and the body swing can replace the importance of the grip)

gruss again

[Hawkeye2]

Hi,

I never understood how to serve with a backhand grip, it just don't feels "natural"...(for flat first serve)

By the way, Boris Becker served nearly all of his serves with a slight forehand grip, and they didn't call him "Boom Boom Becker" for nothing !

And look at Roddick, Ljubicic and some other great servers I can't see a noticeable backhand grip there when they are using a flat first serve.

I would recommend that you should use the grip you're comfortable with.

But when it comes to a slice or twist (topspin) serve a slight backhand grip will indeed support your service.

That is because you don't want to hit the ball straight in the center, you want to hit it either at the side (about 3 o'clock for slice) or over the top (about 11 o'clock for topspin). That's why it is helpfull that your racket face ist a little bit tilted towards the ball.

You want to get "over" the ball for a kick serve or "around" the ball for a slice.

This is just what a slight backhand grip can do for you.

Bye

[Victorious]

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6510/gripkz2.th.jpg (http://img138.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gripkz2.jpg)

This is my grip on second service. On first service, I use a normal backhand grip. On second service I turn the racket 20-30° to the right -> photo!

[A-Rod]

african tiger you said a service with a vorehand grip is verbidden?
I also do my services with this grip and i'm able to do all sorts of services.
So try how you mean it works and not how others tell you.

[african tiger]

thank u a-rod for the the encouraging commend. that´s it what i need and also thank hawkeye2 for great clearance!!!!!!!
hawkeye2 is absolutely right in saying that BH grip is required for the kick and slice serve. the one at which i am so doubtful is the top spin slice (my instructor insists that this serve is the very common 1. serve).
the idea behind moving the grip to the FH is that in doing so, the racket opens a bit and the ball could be met from the center toward 1.30 causing the spin. because that works so well i start feeling insecure (am i that good?).

now, i follow your advises and take it easy and play that very serve with the grip slightly FH, like mr. boom boom becker. indeed i heard of him (but not of the other guys, sorry)

one thing came across my mind: i can maintain the semicontinental grip for the top spin slice serve, but wait for the ball to drop a bit futher down (like the pure top spin). i may get the spin that way. would try this weekend.
thanks folk

hawkeye2: are u saying that the flat serve should be performed with FH grip?

[Bomberman]

sorry, but what do you mean by "top spin slice serve"? top spin OR slice serve? or is that one? and how should this one work?

mal auf deutsch...wisst ihr was das heissen soll, top spin slice serve? gibts denn sowas?

[A-Rod]

thank u a-rod for the the encouraging commend. that´s it what i need

yes every time again ;) No how i said i do my serves with zhis grip. That's why i can't give other tipps. But i'm sure you'll solve your problem!

[african tiger]

that one may help

[Hawkeye2]

Hi,

i'm not saying you should use a normal forehand grip on the serve, except when you want to serve like a house wife in a recreation doubles...

Maybe I should try to explain a forehand grip in my own understanding...

Starting with a neutral hammer grip (hold the racket like hammer as if you would try to hit a nail with the frame).

Assuming you're right- and singlehanded, any turn of the handle to the left will result in a forehand grip, starting with an eastern grip, semi western and western.

Starting from a hammer grip any turn of the handle to the right will result in a backhand grip...

When serving a flat first serve you can perfectly use this hammer grip, or maybe even turn the handle very slightly to the left, this would further reduce the spin on the ball. This would be the forehand grip I was referring to, meaining a very slight forehand grip

That's why I was talking about a forehand grip on the serve.

You can't use a semiwestern or western grip on the serve without looking like someone serving with a frying pan...

To serve with a "topspin slice" according to your definition it would help to use a slight backhand grip. Starting from a hammer grip turn the handle a little bit to the right for a slight backhand grip, turn just as much as you're comfortable with.

Good Luck !

Bye

@Bomberman

Aus der Grafik ergibt sich ganz gut was African Tiger meint:

Du triffst den Ball beim Topspin Slice so, daß er eine vorwärts-seitlich Rotation bekommt also tatsächlich auf ca. 1 Uhr getroffen wird.

Gruß

[african tiger]

thank so much hawkeye2 for the explanation, precise and funny! the slight FH is what i mean, having experienced the pure FH for serve (the ball did all but going over the net);)
now, we´ve got there where we used to be: u are recommending the slight BH or the hammer for the topspin slice serve and i can do it only with the slight FH! is that not crazy?
bomberman described well the topspin slice serve: forward element, slice element, one may add upward element for the top spin for top spin is caused through that upward movement of the racket.

so long folk

[Hawkeye2]

Hi,

first of all you should feel comfortable with the grip you use.

If you are and the stroke you exercised works to your satisfaction then the grip is perfectly fine.

Have fun !

[african tiger]

hi folk
that weekend´s going to be the one of truth. Just kidding! bui i would definitely try all the recommended grips and let u know the results eventually.
have a :cool: lovely time
a.tiger

[A-Rod]

Thank you and have fun while trying the grips. You'll find something what's right for you. And if it's the forehandgrip it's no problem ;)

[african tiger]

Hi folk
I spent the whole weekend alone on the court, wanted desperately to find out the truth about those grips and even managed to find one: indeed there are some of them!
Those who insisted on the semicontinental grip for the topspin slice serve did it right I think, having got the ball up to 90% into the service box myself with pretty power with that grip. But why did I not manage to do that and was forced to move the grip to the slight FH at first place? Now, I just did not do the right movement and the ball went to the net. Moving the grip to FH gave me a wider margin of net clearance but that did not mean in any way, that the semicontinental grip was wrong.
Now, on Sunday. I had finally managed to get that very 90% hard 1. serve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and would abandon the slight FH grip. I realized that holding the racket that way, it is obviously open a bit and in oder to avoid the flat hit, I was forced to strike from the center to 1.30. Now, with the semicontinental grip, that hitting form…to happens naturally, the arm is more at ease and the service is much more powerfull.
As far as I am concern, I would consider the question of the right grip for the topspin slice serve as answered. Thank you all for your contributions, advises and encouragements, especially A-rod and Hawkeyes2. Meet you some where on Saitenforum soon.
African Tiger:daumen:
keep the ball rolling

[Hawkeye2]

Hi,

nice to hear that some things worked out for you.

Just keep trying !

Bye